Enhance Your Practice Podcast
Enhance Your Practice Podcast
S16 Ep78: Mastering Social Media with Kelly Killeen, MD
Thank you, invite you to check out all of our educational offerings, from professional surgical videos, courses on practice management and much more on ASPS EdNet. So welcome to today's podcast. We are honored today to be joined by Dr Kelly Killeen, who practices in Los Angeles, and Dr Killeen really needs no introduction from myself, but just a little bit about her background. She trained in California and stayed at Cedars-Sinai for her residency, proceeded for plastic surgery up in Oregon and is now back in Los Angeles with an incredibly successful and prominent practice in Beverly Hills. So I'm really pleased to welcome Dr Colleen and I'll start off by just letting her introduce probably all the great things that I didn't have a chance to advise you about thus far.
Speaker 2:So hi Kelly, hi, Nice to see you. Thank you for having me here.
Speaker 1:All right, great. So I know you've been very involved in the media and obviously with all your social media channels that I can't even really keep up with. So if you could just kind of give us a background about sort of when you started practice and then when all of this sort of became part of that journey and experience.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. I'm a little bit of a haphazard, accidental social media person or media person in general. So I, as most of us do, I skipped around a few different jobs for a short period of time and I did eventually settle back in Los Angeles, in the Beverly Hills area in Los Angeles, in the Beverly Hills area, and I'm a long time internet lover of social media. I was on bulletin boards back in the day, but I've always been mostly a lurker. I wasn't someone who was actively putting content out there, I was just enjoying other people's content. And when I moved back to Los Angeles, what I realized is that there is, at any one time, 100 different shows in development about plastic surgery. So within a couple weeks of starting back, I started getting inquiries to audition for shows, and I auditioned for a few of them when I was new in practice, and one of them was what turned out to be Dr 90210 reboot. So they had already shot a pilot with three surgeons and it didn't do well with testing. It was not something that they were going to go further with, so they were considering replacing one of the people on the show. So I did an interview and they recorded like an hour of me talking and that was it. I didn't hear anything back from them. And then about a year and a half later, I got a phone call that they were revisiting this show. There was a shakeup in the C-suite and they wanted to revisit this show if I was still interested, and I was like, sure, why not? So about six weeks after that I got a phone call in the middle of the clinic with a bunch of people screaming we got picked up for a full season. So that's kind of how it happened with Dr 90210. It was completely random. Usually when you talk to people, the show is nonsense. It's not something you really want to be involved with. You never hear back from them. But this I actually heard back from them and they not only wanted to pursue another pilot, they wanted to actually have a full season of the show that they were doing and they replaced one of the original cast members with myself and Michelle Lee and that's how the reboot of Dr 90210 started.
Speaker 2:So when that was about to start, the EPR, people were like you need a social media presence. Everybody has one, you don't. And I started spending a little bit more time on social media but not really enjoying it. This was before TikTok and it was more the typical Instagram type posting, where the picture of you posing and some silly caption, and I just don't connect with that type of content as much. So the show premiered and showed in 2020. It ended up being a casualty of 2020.
Speaker 2:And I just kind of continued posting but really didn't develop much of a following until TikTok. And my partner at the time was Sharmila Sunder, in my office, and she is a very successful social media person. She's very good at it, she's lovely and authentic and the whole time she was at my office was like you've got to get on social media. And she, the whole time she was at my office, was like you've got to get on social media. You're just, this is for you. And when TikTok rolled out, she told me she's like this is going to be the platform for your personality.
Speaker 2:I just know it and I didn't jump on right away, but I eventually did and within a couple of weeks of me starting really posting, I had a couple posts go viral and the rest is history. And I kind of fell into my groove on TikTok because it really highlights what I can do best, which is just answer questions and relay medical information at a level that lay people are able to consume and understand, and that's really what I enjoy doing and that's what TikTok has allowed me to do. So that's kind of how I fell into my TikTok following and it's been really great for me. It's opened a lot of opportunities with further media and press as well as speaking at our society meetings, and it's just allowed me to better understand my patients and what they want to know and what they're interested in knowing about plastic surgery.
Speaker 1:I mean, that is an amazing story and I didn't realize how sort of recent the timing is, I guess, because I see you on both the speaker trail and in social media. I just assume it's sort of like this decades-long journey or that you've been doing it since you've been starting your practices, but it really sounds like this sort of big. I guess effect and emphasis and initiation was really relatively recent. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It's been completely recent, and I think what's allowed me to be successful is that I do have that experience of being a lover of social media. So I have an underlying understanding of what I like to see and what content I enjoy consuming, and so I just try to create content that I would like to consume, and I think that I'm also. I have found my platform. I think it is difficult to be popular on every platform because they're all so different in the culture and you have to find what works for you, and what my friend Sharmila saw in me was that my personality and what I like to do and what I like to put out there is really made for TikTok, and I think that's the important thing. If you want to be successful on social media, you have to have an understanding of what you like to see, but also what you're good at.
Speaker 1:I mean you say like TikTok, but you have quite a following on other platforms. If you could just kind of comment on how you do that or if it's just transferred over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's difficult. I tend to curate my content for TikTok and then I choose to share a certain percentage of it other places, and I've been, of course, branching out which I think most TikTokers have been because of the fear of what's going to happen to TikTok in this next year we're not sure if it will still be around. So I've been putting there's some content on TikTok that doesn't translate to Instagram, content on TikTok that doesn't translate to Instagram. And it's a little harder for the user on Instagram to understand what's happening, because on TikTok you can click through the comment. It's easier to understand the trends because you see them all over the place and you don't see them on Instagram.
Speaker 2:So sometimes some of the trends and the cutesy videos don't hit. They just don't make sense because it's like an inside joke that non-TikTokers don't get, and so I don't always share everything from TikTok. At this time I don't really create separate content, other than I'm starting to do more long-form content. That's specific for YouTube, because YouTube is really wonderful for long form content and they don't moderate as heavily, so you can show full surgeries on YouTube and have more in-depth conversations and you don't have to worry about saying breast or getting your content suppressed, so YouTube is great for that.
Speaker 1:So I mean just looking at your general numbers, I mean you have, you know, over a hundred and I think, 29,000 followers on TikTok. Can you just sort of explain that journey of you know when you first started the platform and sort of what those numbers look like and because, like you said, it's only been a few years, so you know if you could kind of explain that history and also what and how you think you got your sort of loyalty and followers?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the one thing that I have been able to do which I know is not always possible is that my following although it's not huge I don't have a million followers it's very productive for me from a loyalty standpoint, but also patient production standpoint, and I think the reason why is because I watch and I pay attention to what types of videos my followers like to see from me and what type of content resonates with them, because I want to keep them engaged and they help me be a better surgeon. Like I did a video last night that was very surprising. That went viral. A woman asked me in the comments would I consider doing a breast reduction on a 12-year-old Because her daughter has enormous breasts? And so I, literally at 6.30 last night, made a kind of a quick, no edits video about doing breast reductions on younger people and I woke up to 150,000 views and like 180 comments and 20 DMs, multiple appointment requests for breast reduction appointments through my website, and I think that you look at that and it teaches you something. Right, you can't just go. Oh, wow, that's lucky. I had a good video. What about?
Speaker 2:That video resonated with people and the reality is there's not a lot of content out there about adolescents getting breast reductions. We know that this is a hot topic. There has been huge news articles about it, but there's not a lot of good content on social media about it, and so what I learned is that my followers are interested in this. There was hundreds of people that are like I had this done and it was life changing 20 years ago. I'm so glad it's easier for young girls to have this life altering surgery and it you know it should teach you.
Speaker 2:Something like this is a type of content that my followers want to want to see, and so I went through and I saved a bunch of questions women had in the comments. I'm going to create additional content around that video, but I think if you don't look at your your followers, you're looking at other people's followers. You may miss it. Just because that does well on my page doesn't mean it's going to do well on your page, and so the way that I've been successful growing my following to the type of following it is, but also the size, is just I listen to my followers and I listen to my feedback and I try to curate my content to them because they're supporting me. I want to give them what they're asking for, which is information about certain areas, but it's not going to be the same for every plastic surgeon. You look at Charles Lee, for example, has a monster successful following, and he is hilarious, I mean he can tell a joke.
Speaker 2:I love this. I love Charles Lee. He is the coolest and he can tell a joke with his facial expression.
Speaker 2:You know he is he's fantastic, but I can't do that. That is not who I am. I wish I could, but I can't. So if my goal was to mimic Charles Lee, I would not be successful. And I think the important thing with social media is being honest with yourself about what you're good at and really looking at your own analytics. You can't hire a company to do this for you. All the companies do. I mean I have friends that pay thousands of dollars a month for a social media company that gives them ideas. All they do is they look at social media, what other plastic surgeons are doing that's popular, and then they suggest that to you. They're not making a specific plan for you, your personality and looking at your strengths and weaknesses. They're just dumping out cookie cutter. This type of content does well and that's not how you develop a big, successful following that feeds your practice but also feeds your soul. I mean it's fun for me. I love giving information to people. I love learning what my patients want to know. It makes me a better doctor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, looking at your content, it's also kind of varied. So, as you had just stated, you certainly listen to your followers' comments and sort of address those. But then I know you love, for example, skincare and I'm sure that's not specifically related. I mean, maybe it is. It is certainly the patients who also enjoy skincare and, you know, may have a longing to associate with a doctor who thinks that's important. But if you could tell me about sort of how you incorporated other content that maybe not specifically. I mean, you have your dogs, you know so. So I know that it's sort of a passion and not certainly just a market. You know, for example, exactly like you said, like just a marketing thing. So how did you make the decision? How does one sort of be true to themselves to incorporate things that they actually really love and enjoy?
Speaker 2:So I you know, a lot of the original social media content that I consumed when I was more of a lurker was beauty content. I love a good beauty guru makeup tutorial. I have watched all of them Nicole Concilio, desi Luster, lux I mean, they were my jam in the early aughts. I love that content and one of the things that drove me bonkers was that a lot of the beauty YouTubers would do reviews of products without really using it. They would open it up and they would try it, and then that's all you would get, and I always thought to myself I would love for them to come back after they finished the product and let me know what they thought. So, since I'm such a lover of skincare and makeup, I was like you know, I'm just going to. When I'm done with a product, I'm going to get my empty and I'm going to tell people what I think about it. And you know, if people don't like it, who cares? Right, it makes me happy and it's what I always wanted to see with these beauty YouTubers. And then, weirdly, those videos actually did really well. They don't always get the most views, but they get a lot of attention. I get a lot of comments and questions and DMs asking me about what I would use instead of that product, since I don't like it. A lot of skincare companies started sending me PR to try and it just became kind of my thing and I'm someone who suffered from cystic acne. I was on Accutane. I have a true love for the space and I think people see that in you. If you're just a random person talking about a product who doesn't really love the space, the authenticity is not there and your viewer sees that you can't pretend to be authentic. You're either authentic or you're not, and that was something that was really authentically me and with my dogs.
Speaker 2:I see a lot of people show pictures of their cute dogs and that's not particularly interesting, but I was like my dogs are more interesting than that. My dogs are show dogs. I am learning how to show dogs. I think people always wonder, like how the heck do you get into this weird world of dog shows? And I got myself somehow sucked into it three years ago and I've been doing it and I thought, well, maybe people will want to see like what goes on, like in the movie best in show. And so I started.
Speaker 2:I started showing um, my dogs and explaining my dogs and explaining what I was doing and showing some of the different sports that I do in addition to dog show, and I made friends with Dog Talk.
Speaker 2:So now I have a lot of followers from Dog Talk, which is a section of TikTok where a lot of the purebred dog community lives that care deeply about preservation and ethical breeding, and it's become another part of my social media, and it also grew out of something that I really loved looking at. When I got my dogs, I heavily researched the breeder. I heavily researched everything because I wanted the healthiest, best example of a Dalmatian that I could find, and I think that there's a lot of people out there that are like me that really want to know hey, how the heck do you find a really well-bred, healthy dog and you don't become a victim of a backyard breeder or an unethical breeder, and how do you not become part of the problem with dog overpopulation? And so I decided to share that and that ended up being successful too, and I think you know it's just again another example of something that was very authentic to me and my experience and and people like it.
Speaker 1:So just to note, I have seen Dr Colleen up close multiple times. She's absolutely gorgeous and if you would ever tell me that in the past she had all these skin disorders. Obviously the products that she decides to choose are quite excellent, so I just wanted to comment on that. But in terms of the other content with the dogs and the skincare, skincare and even family type of things Does that variety allow you to keep it interesting for yourself or it's just, like you said, your true freedom of expression and your dedication to that?
Speaker 2:I think it's a little bit of both. I think it does allow me to keep it authentic to myself and keep it interesting for myself. I think I would get a little bored if it was just. It would feel too much like work to me if it was all work, and so adding a little bit of my personal life and my hobbies and my interests have made it more fun for me personally. I think even if those videos got zero views, I would still do them, because it allows me to break up the content and and and, kind of you know, be more at peace with this being a fun part of my life and not work. Um, and then you know, I think too, part of social media as a plastic surgeon is at least my type of social media is allowing my future patients to get to know me. You know, when people come into my office they're like, oh my God, I feel like I already know you, you're exactly who you are on social media and that brings me so much joy. I want my patients to choose me because they're comfortable with me and they like my personality and they think there's a surgeon that I like her communication style, I like her personality, I want to work with her and I think that makes a healthier doctor patient relationship for me too. It's amazing, and even if if the watchers don't become my patients which a majority won't I love that.
Speaker 2:I help people. I was at Cedars last week doing a recon and I was marking my patient and as I walked out of the room, a nurse ran up to me and was like, oh my God, you're actually here. And I was like, yeah, I'm here and she's like I just had a breast reduction. I watched all of your videos. They were so, so helpful. Thank you so much. You made my experience with my surgeon so much better and I was like that made my day. It just made my day. Did she have surgery with me? No, did she have a better experience because my information was out there? Yes, and I think to me that is worth more than 500 patient referrals. I just like that. I'm helping people have a better experience and have a better relationship with my community as plastic surgery.
Speaker 1:So I mean that was in the hospital. Does something like that ever happen to you on the street as you're walking down and people recognize you from like TikTok?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does, and you would think with I don't have enough followers to have that happen, but it happens on a regular basis. I don't have enough followers to have that happen, but it happens on a regular basis. I'll have people come up to me when I'm at the mall, or often people will recognize my dog before they recognize me and walk up to me and go like, oh my gosh, I thought that was your dog. It's really fun. It's fun to meet people out that enjoy your content, and it's been a blast for me. I really love it.
Speaker 1:Right, and getting back to your content, would you say each of your posts is relatively contemporaneous, or do you have some backup stock just in case you're ill for weeks? That's a great question. Not that we ever get a chance to be ill for weeks.
Speaker 2:Right. I was like like we actually get to stop. But no, I always try to have and that was a suggestion to me by one of my influencer patients years ago was like you should always have stuff as a backup. So I do try to hit popular news stories right when they happen, cause of course that's when you'll get the most attention for that content. But what I do is on Wednesdays and Thursdays are my clinic days and I tend to be a little more dressed up and have my hair done and I look a little more cute, and on my lunch hour or between patients I will shoot response videos to questions from my prior posts and then I have those in a log and I'll put those up whenever I don't have like a you know content that's specific for that day, like a news story or something, and I try to. I think it's best for me that I always have at least five to 10 videos in the queue from from that that type of video, and then I also have right now about 30 or 40 before and afters that are prepared and waiting, and then I try to put those up once or twice a week and I like that content interspersed throughout my educational content too.
Speaker 2:I don't do a lot of operating room content. I just feel weird filming patients when they're asleep, even when they tell me I can. I just have a weird thing about that. So I tend to just from a patient standpoint. I tend to just do content that is before and after related. But I think it's a good idea to have a schedule so it's not so intimidating.
Speaker 2:If you're waiting to the last minute to create a video, it's going to be low quality 100% of the time it's going to be nonsense. It's like if you're waiting to the last minute to create a video, it's going to be low quality A hundred percent of the time. It's going to be nonsense. It's going to be it's. It's like if you wait till seven o'clock to start dinner with no plan, it's not going to be good, right you?
Speaker 2:If you, if you think about it and you start at four 30 and your dinner's ready by six, you're going to have a much better dinner than if you throw it together last minute with no thought. And that's how your content is on social media, even though I just said that my video last night went viral that I threw together. That's not usually how it works. Typically you really have to put a little more thought into the video, and I don't plan. I'm a very good riffer. I'm much better when I can just speak without planning. But if you're someone who needs to plan, I would really sit down, write a couple points you want to get across in each video so that you stay on task, you get out there the information you want in a way that makes sense and you don't stress yourself out trying to do it last minute.
Speaker 1:So you said you do some of this stuff in between the day during, like your quote unquote lunch break. So what kind of setup do you have to have and is the setup different Whether I mean I have to look back at your backgrounds, but like at the office versus at home, like, is there, like if you can kind of go through the basics of the equipment needs for somebody who might want to do this?
Speaker 2:kind of go through the basics of the equipment needs for somebody who might want to do this. Yeah, that's a great question, and this is actually one of the most common things people ask me in my DMs from my colleagues. So I think if you are going to shoot content, the first thing you need to buy is a good mic, and having a good mic just takes your content to the next level. I mean, if you listen to my content, versus someone that doesn't have a mic, you'll want to just turn off, no matter how good that video is. The sound is so important. I use the DJI Mini and I love that mic. So it has a little receiver that plugs in your iPhone. It has a tiny little mic. It has two of them, actually the one that I bought so if I'd like to do a video with someone else, we both can be mic'd. It just works. It's not hard. You don't have to be a tech genius. You take it out of its little charger and plug it in and it works, and so it's in a little case. I just keep that in my purse and so I have it at home and at work. I have an older DJI mic. That's also good and I keep that at home just in case I forget to bring home my current one. But I think that's the first purchase and it's like 200 bucks. It's not expensive. The other thing you need is a good tripod, so you want to be able to have your phone held by something so you're not shaking and you can tell the videos I'm walking around, because it's just harder to watch. I try to do everything with a tripod so it's stable. That will turn people off to your content. I've even had people comment on my videos like you're shaking too much, stop it. So I'm having a nice tripod. I have a tall one for standing and I have a short one for my desk. They're cheap on Amazon. They're like 20 to 50 bucks depending on which one you buy.
Speaker 2:And then the next thing is just lighting. So I don't like to be tethered to anything. Ring lights are a pain in the ass and they're huge. I have a brick, a lighting brick. It's about the size of a cell phone. It's like exactly the size of a cell phone in the weight and it's rechargeable no cords, and you can change the warmth of the light. You can change how bright it is and it lasts for several hours, and so I have two of those and I usually keep one in my purse and I have one in my office on a stand facing me. So that's really all I have.
Speaker 2:I know some people have like really expensive setups. That is not me. I'm a simple girl. I just like things that are easy and don't require a lot of technology help. When I'm at home, my husband helps me because he is a tech expert but I am not, and so, since I do most of this at work, I want it to be simple. So he's helped me curate my setup, so it's easy.
Speaker 2:I like to do most of my filming in the same locations, and I do that because, even if people don't know who you are, necessarily they recognize the setup and so they know I'm the doctor lady who talks about plastic surgery. They may not know I'm Kelly Killeen, but they see that backdrop with my degrees behind me on the wall in my office and they're like, okay, I know, I know who this person is. So I would suggest, especially when you're building your following, to try to be consistent when you're discussing you know, especially professional things, because that way you're going to be more recognizable not just your face, but also the backdrop. All of it together helps the watcher know who you are. The only thing that I do poorly and I'll tell you I can't change it, because I'll tell you why in a second is I have my camera flipped. And it's funny because Steve Teitelbaum has gotten on me a few times for this and sent me DMs and talked to me in person because when I shoot, my degrees are backwards so you can't really read them.
Speaker 2:And he he's so. He's so kind and lovely and supportive. And he, he was like Kelly, you have great content. I want people to know who you are. You need to flip the camera so people can read your degrees. And no, he's totally right. So but here's why I can't do it because I don't like how I look when I flipped. I'm so used to seeing myself now with that camera. I can't use the back camera on my phone. I feel like I look weird and it messes with my brain. But Steve is 100% right. If you're first starting out and you're going to shoot with your degrees, shoot with the camera on the back With the way it's supposed to be, versus selfie mode.
Speaker 1:you're saying.
Speaker 2:Right, right, and I think he's 100% right. I wish someone would have told me that when I first started, so I could get used to how my face looks backwards, but it just freaks me out when I see it the other way, so I can't do it. But he's right.
Speaker 1:I mean. So for me, even doing this podcast, I don't like listening to my own voice. I know that sounds strange because I'm hosting this, but in terms of doing you know all these TikTok contents and stuff, did you ever feel like, I mean, you're beautiful and you project very well, but was it sort of weird watching your own content?
Speaker 2:It was at first and I agree with you. It's strange to hear your own voice. It's weird to see your face. Sometimes the facial expressions I make, I'm like why do I do that? But I'm so used to it. Now it doesn't bother me as much as it used to. You just have to get used to it, get over it. Get over it, I mean the more that you see yourself on video and you listen to yourself on video, it starts to feel normal and it's not as strange.
Speaker 1:Have you ever sort of like gone back and I know this sometimes happens due to the interaction with the viewers but have you ever had to like completely delete content and if so, like why?
Speaker 2:I actually haven't had to delete content. I've considered it a few times when I've been like harassed and bullied on certain videos. I have not deleted content because I kind of stand by what I say usually and I'm thoughtful with what I produce. And sometimes it makes it to the wrong side of TikTok or Instagram and that's okay. There's no shame in taking something down if it's not getting the response you would like. But I would also say that if it's important content and it's just got to the wrong audience, sometimes it's better just to limit the viewers for a while and not allow people to comment that don't follow you.
Speaker 2:There's all kinds of tools on both TikTok and Instagram for anti-bullying protection and you can keep good content up and eliminate the harassment. And I think sometimes that's better because, especially with certain communities like the chronic pain community and the BII community, they really want content taken down. They don't want certain types of content out there and they're just wrong. Patients deserve accurate, evidence-based information and it's best when it comes from the experts, which is us. And I'm not taking down a video about breast implants because the BII community saw it and doesn't like it. That's not fair to patients researching, who want accurate information that's not fair to patients researching who want accurate information and so I won't do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I know exactly what you're talking about. I think you mentioned that at one of the meetings and for those people who are already, I guess, concerned about the content that they're trying to produce, that would be intimidating. But I think your point in stating that this information is important and you should stick by it is very, I guess, compelling in terms of having the courage to do that. So do you ever have other people just sort of peruse or, like you said, your husband's techie before you lay something out, or is it just always based on your decision and you feel pretty confident about it?
Speaker 2:It's always my decision. I feel pretty confident about it, but I am thoughtful and I know the social media verse and so I know, when I put a video out, if it's going to be controversial. And so, if if that's the case, like I'm, I'm prepping a little bit for one of the upcoming BII paper videos that we we know about. You know, us in the community know about a paper that's going to be published shortly and it's really important to talk about, but it's going to get not the best response. It's really important to talk about, but it's going to get not the best response, I imagine, from that community. So I've actually put a lot of thought in how am I going to relay this information in a consumable way for them, because I want women with breast implant illness to have good information and I want them to be able to consume it from me. And it's important for me to give information in a way that can be consumed, because there's no point in making a video if your intended audience won't look at it or won't listen to it. And so I think that you have to be thoughtful when you're doing controversial things.
Speaker 2:Now, if you're not someone who spends a lot of time on social media and you don't know the culture, then yes, especially certain controversial subjects, have someone listen to your video and say like, oh, this doesn't come off so great. Maybe you should say it a different way, because often you know there's also certain things and certain verbiage that doesn't do well on social media and people find offensive. And my goal is to be not offensive, to be educational. I don't want anything in my video to take away from the facts and the points that I make, and so I always think about that. But yeah, I mean, I don't think it's wrong to have someone give you input, especially on controversial subjects.
Speaker 1:Now, in terms of just practicality, in a given week, how much? Because it sounds like you do a lot of your own work on all of this, both the correspondence as well. If you had to actually calculate it, how many hours in a week do you think you devote to all of this?
Speaker 2:This is always my joke. It's kind of like asking a lady her weight, honestly. So I spend a lot more than I should, and how much of it is just fun for me time and how much of it is work, I don't think I really could tell you. I probably spend 8 to 10 hours a week producing content, moderating content on my page and planning content, which is a lot, and I do everything myself. You don't have to do that. You can ask for help with certain parts of that to make it less oppressive for you. But it's I mean, it's marketing. You have to ask yourself, how much time do you put into marketing and planning? Marketing? Know, I think it's an important part, especially of a private practice plastic surgeons practice and so I really enjoy it as well. So I do things, probably that I don't need to be doing, but yeah, it's a lot of time.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think you're correct, even if you did have a whole marketing team, you have to actually provide their direction. So it would probably take you know that time as well. Um, in addition to sort of uh, you know moderating, what the response would be. So I, I, I don't, I actually don't think it's as much as I had imagined it to be actually so, um, in terms of sort of its effect on your practice, if you could kind of give us some sort of I guess, like almost like a before and after effect of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean so before social media really hit for me, I would say that most of my consults came from patient referrals and then here and there we had people that had no doctor preference. That would get filtered to me in my practice because, whatever reason from our general marketing that our practice did, now essentially everyone I see is either a patient referral or referred directly to me from social media. I get probably at least 200 social media requests a month and there's always some of it's nonsense and people are not truly going to come in as patients, so you do need someone to sift through that. But I just have a really significant consult request volume that comes from social media and I monitor those requests to see what types of things people are coming in for and I try to curate my content to those types of things. You know, if my breast reduction content tends to do very well, I do tons of breast reductions and so I make a lot of breast reduction content because those are my people.
Speaker 2:I don't do facial surgery that much anymore, so I don't do a ton of facial surgery content because that's not really what I'm looking for in my practice. And so I do answer questions here and there because of course I am in fact a plastic surgeon and I can do facial surgery I used to, but I don't anymore. But I do tend to curate my content based off of my consult requests. Those patients have very high booking rates with me because they choose me, because they like my personality. If they come in for consult, you know, 90 plus percent of them book surgery. So it's been great from a business standpoint too, which is a nice side effect.
Speaker 1:Do you also feel like, because there's so much content on explaining what the patient has to do, both pre post, during that it enables you to kind of be more efficient in even practicing plastic surgery.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean especially for breast. I put all my content in playlists. So I have a breast reduction playlist with like 65 videos and when patients book consults with me, my coordinator will send them the link to that playlist and it's hours of content on breast reductions, everything you can imagine about a breast reduction. Patients come in with no questions and it looks, it feels weird to me Like I almost don't have to do a consult with them because they have had the consult already in that form. So it's been really nice from a patient education standpoint. I feel like my patients are super, super educated, Even post-op. They'll come in and I'll take the dressings off at one month and we'll be looking at incisions. They're like yeah, I'm a little square, I'm in that SpongeBob square boob phase, so I know.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, I know that video.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're like oh, the next couple of months, everything's going to soften and it's going to round out. I'm really looking forward to the final results and I'm like, wow, this is like so great. You don't even have to like be part of that whole visit.
Speaker 1:You don't even have to be part of that whole visit.
Speaker 2:I know. I mean it's really interesting how it has helped my patients be more comfortable with their healing because they understand it more. And sometimes people are not comfortable asking their doctor questions. They come in and they're concerned. Their breast is square, but they feel weird asking you about that. And they're concerned, their breast is square, but they feel weird asking you about that. And so I think sometimes just having the content offered to them without them having to ask answers questions they already had and that's why I said I think it makes me a better surgeon because people ask me the weirdest stuff and I never thought someone cared about these things. But it turns out a lot of people care about these things and it's really allowed me to better educate. So people are comfortable when they're healing and they feel good about their healing.
Speaker 1:So I mean, if you look at some of your content, you're also on with, I guess, other plastic surgeons who do content. You mentioned previously Dr Lee and he does some hilarious, I would say collaboration or collab content. Tell me about if you have any interest in that. I mean, I do see just sort of like random kind of photo op things, but have you sort of looked into that or thought about that, or does that even appeal to you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know there's a couple plastic surgeons that tend to do collaborations with each other. It's a kind of a little boys group. It's like Tony Yoon and Charles Lee and Dr Miami, and I think it's a great way to share your following. So it's a great way to boost up other plastic surgeons. It would be nice if the big dogs would do it for some of the smaller people, which I think you know obviously would help out more of the community. But it's it's a great way to share your following and I always say this at meetings when we talk about social media support other plastic surgeons, even if they have no followers, because good information out there is going to make things better for us and our patients.
Speaker 2:We don't want patients getting information from cosmetic surgeons. We don't want patients getting information frankly from other patients who don't really know the reality of what these surgeries are like post-op. And so if you see someone pop up on your feed with great information, share their information. Be collegial to your colleagues. If they do a different technique than you, you don't need to tell them your technique is better. Boost their video and say, wow, that's really interesting. There's so many great techniques for breast lifts. If someone does a surgery differently than you or has a different idea about what the right thing to do is, but it's still not wrong which there's rarely wrong in plastic surgery support them, because patients out there are not always your patient. There's going to be someone out there that wants you and what you offer, or they may want what your friend offers, and it's best if good people are boosted on the algorithm than, obviously, cosmetic surgeons or bad information.
Speaker 2:I think most plastic surgeons are pretty collegial. On social media I've encountered a few that are kind of you know, a little bit narcissistic with their takes and they think that they do everything right and they're the smartest and best trained plastic surgeon in the world and anyone who doesn't agree with them needs to be squashed. Don't be that person. That's just a crummy person to be. You know we're all in a community here, working together to not only take good care of patients but take care of each other, and there's enough patients in the world for all of us. You don't need to behave that way. You don't look good to prospective patients behaving that way and you certainly don't look good to your colleagues don't look good to your colleagues.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I wonder if you already have firsthand knowledge of whether other surgeons have referred sort of like information for their own patients to your site, just because I do think your content tends to be very informative in terms of you know both very, and the way you speak it's very practical. So have any surgeons told you like, hey, I use you for my pre-op and post-op patients because otherwise I think I'm me?
Speaker 2:All the time. All the time and it's been one of the nicest things about my experience on social media has been the relationships I've gained with other plastic surgeons, and I cannot tell you how flattering it is to have some plastic surgeon that I respect amazingly, like Holly Wall or Pat McGuire, come up to me and tell me that I really loved your video on this. I never thought about it that way and I'm like, oh my God, did this incredible person that I have looked up to forever just compliment me Like? This is the best moment of my life? I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I'm sure that happens quite a bit because you know you're both sort of, you know, super engaging, but then also clinically it's, you know, material that people really want to understand, and you know material that people really want to understand and, and you know, quite complicated. I mean, I remember being on a panel with you and being like wow, she's so like beyond, you know, up to date, both clinically too. So, um, I just want to congratulate you both on the content as well as the clinical stuff. Um, so, in terms of, I guess, kind of patient management, because it seems like you know there's probably so much out there, how does your office know and I guess I would ask what percentage of stuff comes through that you kind of have to say like, you know this isn't real, and how do you guys like is it a little daunting to them and does it happen in like spikes and valleys?
Speaker 2:It can be a little daunting to them. It definitely comes in spikes, especially when I have viral videos that get you know like yesterday. I'll probably get you know 30 consult requests today, which you know is it's a lot for my coordinator to deal with.
Speaker 2:So what I do is I and I think this is really important if you're going to use any type of different media for advertising that you have different contact points for every type of contact. So I try to send people from social media through a certain channel so that I can basically watch how many come from social media, a certain channel, so that I can basically watch how many come from social media. And I think the one thing I will say is that email contacts are much easier and faster than phone calls, and so it's easier for staff to sift through a large volume with email than it is by having them make calls and getting stuck on the phone with somebody who you know lives in a different country and has no intention of coming and seeing you. I think that that is not a good use of their time. So I tend to encourage email contact first for especially the social media people, and then it's easy to flesh out whether this is someone who just wants to say hi because they saw you on social media, or if there's someone that really truly wants to come in for a consult.
Speaker 2:I think it's important that you have an out for people that can't afford you, because you will find that if you are more on the expensive side, that people get very angry if they cannot afford your fees and that can result in negative reviews and whatnot. So we have a junior partner in my practice and she is more than happy to take any overflow that can't quite meet the price that I'm offering. And then also, if you have younger plastic surgeons in town that are your friends, it's great to send them some of these people as well. Like I said, not every patient is going to come to you, and as soon as you recognize that as a plastic surgeon you're going to be happier. And if you get people to where they belong, then that gives goodwill in the world.
Speaker 1:Right, I could see how they could get so frustrated because they took the effort to contact you and then, without there being an additional path, just the door got closed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it feels ugly to them and elitist and so I always say always have a door out for patients to help them. Like this morning somebody asked me about do I know anyone in Maryland that would do a breast reduction, and I gave them like six different people's names that I know in Maryland. Like those people were not coming to me. I didn't lose anything by helping someone. In fact I gained something by helping someone. So that looks good to that patient and it looks good to everybody that sees that that I'm just a nice person trying to help.
Speaker 1:I'm not trying to get every penny from every person that's on my social Right and in terms of sort of, I guess, the conversion of out of town patients. Since you started all of this, would you say like what do you think your percentage is?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, probably 40, 50% of my patients are out of city out of state, yeah, and it's.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of social media and I think that, um, you know, you just, if you're going to be an out of state plastic surgeon, you need to be a respectful out of state plastic surgeon. You need to make sure that your patients are stable and comfortable before they go home. You need to make sure you help your patients if they develop problems and they're out of state. But I think I have a good system for that and I do have a lot of out of town patients.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, and so, and does that mean they're allowed to do, I guess, telehealth consultations and then sort of limited in their live active stays with you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that can make it challenging depending on what the problem is. So our insurance people are very adept at working with out-of-state insurers now, which is great for patients. Telehealth has been amazing. Our practice is transitioning to Chrysalix, which will allow patients to actually image themselves with their phones and iPads, which I'm hoping that that will make surgical planning a little easier for me and implant ordering in the future. I usually have them come in a certain time period preoperative and I of course course want to meet people before the day of surgery if at all possible, and spend some time with them. If they come in and I'm meeting them in person the day of surgery, if it just doesn't work out, then I obviously am going to come in early. I want that patient not to feel rushed. I want that patient to feel like they had just the same experience as an in-person consult did same experience as an in-person consult did.
Speaker 1:Okay, All right. Well, I mean, we've covered a lot of topics, but I of course have to ask that final question on sort of updates in terms of you know, you discussed a little bit about the different types of media where you can sort of, you know, say, nipple and do kinds of all kinds of things on YouTube, but any updates on shadow banning?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I know this isn't going to be popular for a lot of people, but in general you're not shadow banned, your content just sucks and I think you just you have to tell yourself that. I mean nine times out of 10, someone will tell me their shadow band and I look at their content and it's just stale and not good. You're not getting views because your content's not getting views. It's not because you're shadowband, but in general, like on TikTok, certain things will trigger the AI. So if you say nipple a lot, if you say death, it will trigger the AI. So, although I don't like to use medical terms when I'm explaining things because people may not know them, I'll say necrosis more than I say death or dying, because that will get my video deprioritized and kicked off the FYP. I learned on one of my videos last week that F-U, f-u, which means follow up to us, means fuck you in the social media and that will get your content taken down.
Speaker 2:Um, you just have to really look at your content and try to figure out what the problem is and solve it. Um, we're just always going to struggle with certain videos being deprioritized. Before and afters always don't get a lot of views because they don't make it to the FYP. But it's important they're there because if someone goes to your page they will see them. So you know, I think shadow banning is always going to be a problem. Our content is controversial and unfortunately, we use terminology that gets us in trouble. It just is what it is, and so the smartest thing to do is, if you have a really good video and it's not getting views, re-listen to your video, try to figure out if you used medical terms like breast nipple, areola, whatever, FFU, if you type that out in your caption, whatever, and then try to reshoot it without those words and see what happens.
Speaker 2:And often if you reshoot it without those words, you're fine. If your violation is egregious in the mind of the AI, they may deprioritize all of your videos for a few days.
Speaker 1:So it is what it is. Yeah, they punish you.
Speaker 2:It's usually no longer than 72 hours. So if that happens, like I had that happen a couple weeks ago and I got 12 views on a video in an hour, I'm like, oh, I did it. I somehow I made the AI bad and it is what it is. So then I didn't post my videos that I thought were really good for the next two days, just in case.
Speaker 2:You know, I just I was like, okay, whatever, I'll appease the AI, I'll post pictures of my dogs for a few days and then I went back to my normal, my normal stuff. So it is what it is. We're always going to fight that type of moderation, but I think you know it's just like as a surgeon anything that happens to your patient post-op, you assume it's you and that's the smartest thing to do as a surgeon you assume it's you and it's something you did. I think that if your content is not getting views, you have to assume it's you and that the content. You either said something wrong or it's not good and figure out what the problem is.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I mean we're coming up towards the conclusion of our time together. I just wanted to ask any other final like get the message out. I mean, I think all the words of collaboration and sort of your purpose and you know all the little pearls were excellent, but is there anything? You know that I didn't ask you, that you're kind of like, oh, like, this definitely needs to get out there. I just wanted to give you an opportunity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just I would really encourage everyone to spend more time on social media and then, if you're new or you're struggling to get views, sit down and write down 10 types of videos that you like to watch, and I think if you start curating content for yourself and stop worrying about the general public, that's when your people will come.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's an awesome word of advice and at least for the young people starting out, would it just be almost like a no-go stop-halt? Let's say they're going into private practice all on their own If they don't have an initial social media presence, do you think it's just catastrophic?
Speaker 2:I think it's catastrophic.
Speaker 1:I knew you'd tell me the truth. I knew you wouldn't be kind and say like, eh, you could, you couldn't.
Speaker 2:No it's so funny. At one of the resident sessions I was at, one of the residents stood up and said he said, yeah, I'm thinking of curating my practice more like Tim Martin, who doesn't have an internet presence, and my response was you're not Tim Martin, Tim.
Speaker 1:Martin Right, Like you're sir, like you're not even out yet Like you're not Tim.
Speaker 2:Martin, like he's a different generation than you. He's very famous. You're not Tim Martin At first. Especially, play by the rules. The surveys show patients look at their doctor's social media before booking the appointment. Even if it's just an extension of your website, at first have something there as a landing page for patients to look at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think that is absolutely true. I mean, even if your mother, entire family, your priest, your rabbi tells you to go to this doctor, I think everyone is compelled to sort of you know, just because we have the resources, you're still going to search and see if there's any content available out there. I think that's like the first thing they do. And plus, even just to go to your office, it's connected to Google. So, in terms of there being a social media presence, I think the lesson is, even if you don't want one, one there is, and even if you think it's not important, it definitely will be to some degree. So I think that's absolutely true.
Speaker 1:Absolutely agree. All right, awesome, all right. Well, thank you so much. I mean, I personally have acquired so much information myself I'm going to have to take notes and off the actual transcript because there's so much in there and I just want to really thank you. Thank you for doing all of this content, for being such a great leader for our society and really sharing.
Speaker 1:I think, from my perspective, that's sort of why I do this stuff, I mean even this podcast hosting. I just do it because I think it is important for all of us to sort of, like you said, support each other, make each other grow, so that we can keep like what we value so much about what we do, you know, like out there and foremost and respectable and yeah, so share all of those thumbs up. So honored that you joined us and again, thank you so much for your time. Thank you, we hope you enjoyed this episode of the Enhance your Practice podcast series brought to you by ASPS University. You can listen to our other episodes on other podcast platforms or you can download recordings directly from ASPS EdNet. New episodes coming soon.